Episode Transcript
Hey, everybody. Welcome back to the Royalty Room podcast. It's Legal Queen LA and we are here today to talk about the consequences of saying no. And I mean that across any platform, any industry, any situation. But today, mainly we're going to focus on the entertainment industry. Uh, so we have a special celebrity, celebrity guest, uh, who is also a celebrity publicist. Ms. Ann Barlow, welcome to the show.
Hello, everyone, how are you? I, I personally am feeling great. Um, I feel like this topic is something that I've been thinking about, um, since the start of my show, since before I even started Wow. The show, actually. Um, so whenever we spoke and, you know, you kind of brought it up as well, I was like, oh my gosh, I have an episode and I have the perfect person. So thank you so much for being here.
My pleasure.
Um, I think, you know, you can probably relate, you know, as being a woman and also as being a minority, we don't really get taken seriously and in business.
Absolutely true. How, how
Do you feel about, like, overall as, as a woman being in the entertainment industry? Like overall?
Well, overall, I, I tell you, it's not easy because as they say, this is a man's world. Hmm. But they forget it wouldn't be anything without a woman , uh, especially a woman that really takes care of her business. Hmm. You know, you have women that's in business and, you know, sometimes it's just a front for other things, you know? But when you have a professional businesswoman that is grinding, that is getting it done, you know, she expects to be taken serious, you know, in what she delivers, right? Not in what she say she can do, but what she delivers. And oftentimes, you know, um, you don't get past face . You don't get past the body, um, because that's the first thing that a man see, you know, he's not listening to you. He's not hearing you say, you know what you can deliver. He's looking at how beautiful you are. He's looking at how well he think your body is put together mm-hmm. and so forth. So it makes it a little bit difficult, um, for us women that are seriously, um, trying to get business done.
I think, um, you know, working as a, a publicist or working as an attorney, um, we take on clients and I think oftentimes people mail people , like to essentially waste our time, oh, I need your services. I need your services. A couple days or a couple weeks ago. But, oh, actually, I didn't really need anything from you. I'm just trying to, you know, talk to you, or I just, I just wanna take you out. I've actually had somebody text me, you know, um, after we had been corresponding for a while about a meeting. He was like, by the way, like, I'm just gonna be honest. I really, I'm just actually just trying to take you on a date.
Wow.
So you've been wasting my time this whole time and don't care. And I don't wanna go out on a date with you. So what does that mean? I don't get, especially now, your business . Um, and I think that that's something that I, every woman has experienced that at, at some time or another, kind of navigating through the industry. Um, what would be your advice, uh, to any young ladies that are entering into their careers that may have these similar situations? Or what is your advice for me, because I still haven't figured out, um, how to navigate these situations?
Well, you know, um, stay guarded. You know, I give a guarded attitude. And so, um, I would say that would be the first thing, um, is how you present yourself. And so, you know, I like to plant seeds in kinda like a test conversations. I like to plant seeds. Like, you know, I'll plant a seed and, you know, put it out there and say, you know, um, you know, I'm really about my business, you know, and, you know, just plant seeds throughout the conversation. And these are like stoppers mm-hmm. Okay. So in the back of their mind, they're knowing, okay, I can't just come direct with her. I'm gonna have to go around the bush around the corner with her because she's not having it. So they might actually go through the entire process of a consultation. Um, they may have a real business in everything, but in the back of their mind, they're thinking, eventually I'm going to have opportunity to exercise my tree motives. Right?
And so, um, the second thing is never compromise. I don't care how much they dazzle the carrot. I don't care how much money they say they have. Just know that it's not in your bank account. Okay? Woo. It's not your asset. Okay? So therefore, don't be easily impressed is my, um, second, um, advice. Don't be easily impressed by how fancy the car is, how beautiful the home might be. Um, you know, the jewelry, don't be impressed, okay? Because it's not yours. They earn that, and it's time for you to earn yours. Okay? So, um, that is the top two, um, things that I can say to advise, you know, a young lady, um, make sure she has her things together. Because if you don't have your things together as, as far as your business, making sure that you know you're licensed, making sure that you have everything in order concerning with the business services that you offer, because they're gonna judge you on that. They're gonna say, okay, well, she's a novice, so I could play around with her. Right? But if you have a brick and mortar like myself, if you have license with the city and the state, okay? If you have, you can be found on Google, okay. Your business, um, just put everything in order with yourself before you seek services, because you'll definitely be judged by your presentation and if you are a, a true professional or if you're a novice.
So what do you think about, you know, we're in the social media age, and, um, I think everybody at this point in, in my show and in my life knows me and, and how I am, and, and, you know, just it's me. That's right. Um, how do you feel about me or someone else and my social media and my bathing suits or my, my, uh, nights out or whatever it may be. Um, but also, yeah, I'm a lawyer. Take me serious. Do you feel like that is a huge thing that I should be focusing on? Because with me, you get what you get. I am who I am online, and I am who I am offline. I'm very transparent and I'm very me at all times 24 7. Um, so do you think that that is a, I guess a negative aspect? No, I think it's an excuse for them. Mm-hmm. I think that I think that if they take the time to really get to know you as a professional and a person, they will realize that, hey, that's just her attitude. That's just her personality. It doesn't mean that you're trying to seduce. It doesn't mean that you're intentionally trying to be provocative or anything. That's just your personality, right? I mean, look at how Dennis Rodman used to dress okay. But then on the court, he was about his business, but then off the court, he dressed, you know, differently. You know, that was just his personality, right? On and off the court. So I think that a lot of times that, you know, a guy will use that as an excuse. Well, she shouldn't be dressed like that, you know? And so I'm very, um, mindful to my dress attire just because of that. Yeah. You know? Um, do I sometimes wanna get a little bit, you know, super sexy and show a little bit of scared? Of course, yes, I do. And I don't expect that to be held against me, you know, however, you know, in the office I'm a professional and I'm dressed accordingly. But yes, I believe that it is an excuse, you know, in the mind of a man that has certain arterial motives.
Motives. Yep. Absolutely. Thank you for that. I think, um, I completely agree with you, and I think it's kind of difficult to be in this position that I'm in. I, I, I think about it often, and there's a lot of people, oh, I wanna be on your show. I wanna, I wanna work with you. Oh, I have these, this contractor, I have this artist, and it just never graduates into anything pertaining to my business or my bank account. So it's just like, at this point, I'm, I'm kind of tired of wasting my breath in situations where we're talking about working together, and it never pans out into anything. Um, so how do you kind of create those boundaries? Like, I've found it hard to be like, okay, well, you can schedule a consultation and you can pay me for it.
Or oh, we can talk about this at the meeting. I, I charge $400 an hour. I, I find that to be a little bit difficult to set those boundaries instead of having these like free little DMs or mm-hmm. text message or phone calls. Like, don't call me on Saturday and or on Thursday at two o'clock in the morning. Like, just don't. And I've gotten good with those timing boundaries, but like, as far as we're having these conversations and they go on forever, but you're not paying me for my time. So where can I, how can I get better at that?
You know, that is absolutely a wonderful question. Um, I myself had to set boundaries in terms of like, people will Google me and then they'll send me a, a message. And sometimes it's not during appropriate business hours, , and I ignore it ever. Never. I ignore it. Um, I ignore nonsense in general. So if I get a text message, you're not a client of mine, but you're a potentially one, and you text me at eight o'clock at night, nine o'clock at night, I'm not responding until the next business day. Okay. So you have to train your clients, you know, so I won't respond. And then in terms of, that's in terms of the time boundary, in terms of, um, uh, those that will seek free information, so to speak. Um, I will just steer the conversation, you know, would you like to schedule? I'll, I might give a little bit. And then like, you know, if you wanna further discuss this, you can schedule a consultation. I'm 2 75 an hour, well, 3 25 now. I went up, period. The
Price tag went up. Okay.
So, um, yeah. So they'll be like, oh, uh, well how much is it, oh, at the time, 2 75 per hour, or 1 75 for and a half an hour. Your choice. Simple. So now they know that, you know, it can be a phone consultation or you can come to my office. You know, I set those boundaries, you know. Um, that's another thing. In terms of the brick and mortar from the gate, I've always had an office. Okay. I think I met with a potential client maybe once or twice at Starbucks, and that was it. So for over the last 10 years, I've always had an office because I want to be taken serious. You know, I'm not paying this overhead to play games with my time. My time is money. And so, um, you just have to give that aura mm-hmm. That, you know, my time is money.
Um, answer a few questions. Okay. Would you like to schedule, uh, a consultation? I offer a half an hour for 1 75. I offer a full hour or 2 75. You could start off with a half an hour, and if you feel it's going over, then you can just pay me the difference. Right? Okay. And so just setting those boundaries ahead of time and letting them know that you know your worth, you know, your value. I mean, you're very educated. You spent time in college, the bar, everything. And so guess what? Mama gotta pay her student loans.
Ooh. We don't even wanna venture into that stuff.
Right? Right.
Ugh, Biden please.
Exactly. Exactly. So, you know, uh, you know, and at the end of the day, right, and you and I have talked about this before, people will only do what you allow them to do. Mm. Okay. And I tell people all the time, if I show favoritism to a friend of mine that happens to also be a client, I choose to do that. And I can do that because it's my business. Okay? So don't get it twisted. Don't think that this is something common or this is a standard. It's not. I'm just showing you favor at the time.
That's a good point. Friends and family and everybody else, how do we deal with those situations? Because they expect things for free or discount or whatever it may be.
Well, you know, you have to kind of serve reminders mm-hmm. and be like, you know, girl, I'm doing this 'cause you're my friend. You know? And then hopefully they'll say, oh, girl, well, you know, I'll do this for you. You know? 'cause sometimes it's not about the money, but they may offer something that you can trade. Mm-hmm. , you could trade services. Okay. So if she's a hairstylist and she a girl, it's like, girl, I don't mind doing this for you, but, um, I'm gonna, I need my hair done. I'm gonna need my hair done. I need my hair done. I need, I don't mind doing this for you, but I need my nails done. Right. Okay. So you let them know that you're totally aware that I'm offering you something. And yes, I do expect something in return.
Okay. Okay. Um, have you ever unfortunately experienced the time, um, when you didn't get a contract because, or contract or a client or whatever it may be, because you said no to maybe these advances or the, the miscommunications from men in this industry?
Absolutely. And not too long ago, as a matter of fact, , um, I was dealing with a, a new livestream company, and, um, the owner, um, very, very wealthy. And, um, he made advances towards me. And I said, oh my gosh, I'm hoping this don't stop the deal. Right? Stop the contract. And so, you know, I would just kind of like, ignore it, ignore it, ignore it. And then when they agreed to retain my company, then the next thing is, oh, I, we want you to sign it in person. And I'm thinking, okay, well, you know, we can easily do sign now or DocuSign, you know? Right. Oh, no, we want you to tour. Um, um, we just purchased a manufacturing company. We want you to tour. We would just want you to sign it in person. Okay. So one of his gatekeepers, you know, um, spoke to me and I, because it was taking like over 30 days to just close it still.
And I'm wondering, what's the hold up? Right? So he was like, um, you know, yeah, we just, you know, want you to come down. And I said, well, let me just say this. I don't think this will be taken. You vetted me. You gave me an a plus. I don't know why it's taking so long. And I do not think it would take this long if I was a man. He was like, well, what do you mean by that? I said, well, I'm just gonna say, you know, the owner made advances towards me. Said, you know, things like, um, oh, I just wanna cuddle with you and I just wanna love
You so inappropriate.
I just, you know, you don't have to worry about nothing, and I'm gonna make you so rich and, and all of this. And when I speak up and say, well, you know, first of all, I'm intelligent enough that I don't have to mix business with pleasure. Okay? I have a brain, not just a body, not just beauty. Okay. So, um, I could tell he didn't like that.
Of course not.
I can tell. And then the next few times he made a few more advances, but it wasn't as strong because he could tell it wasn't welcomed. Mm-hmm. , I knew then in my heart, in the hard hearts,
The deal's gone.
I knew it was gonna go. He just wanted to play it through. Okay. And guess what? I didn't get the contract right. All of a sudden, oh, we're gonna go another direction after I wasted over a month of my time even traveled has have expenses, was operating under a verbal agreement, and we're gonna go another direction.
And did they ever reimburse you for the expenses that you spent out of your own bank account?
Absolutely not.
Or the services that you provided?
Absolutely not.
So it's kind of like, uh, what is, what is the phrase they say? Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Exactly. Because it's like you, you can give in, or maybe you do like the person or maybe whatever, you can go along with it. Flirty, flirty, et cetera, et cetera, and still not get the contract. Correct. Or if you shut it down, um, no, I'm not comfortable with this, et cetera, you still not gonna get the contract. Right. So it's like you literally can't, if someone is interested in you as a person, not as a business, you're kind of in a lose lose situation already.
Absolutely. It's like, you know, beauty is wonderful, but you're cursed at the same time. Ah, I say that all the time. It's a blessing and a curse. It's
Blessing.
Privilege is real. Yes. Um, and it's a blessing and a curse. It really is. Um, I think, you know, we have to kind of, that's why I wanna have this episode. 'cause I wanna bring this to light, and it happens every day, and I'm sure it's been talked about a million times, but it's just like, what is the solution? Well, how do we, how do we fix it? Or what, what can we do differently?
No compromise. No compromise. You know, I don't care how big your bank account is, how much assets you have, I'm not compromising. I'm not compromising. And so often the women that do compromise, then they look at us like the ones that don't mm-hmm. like, okay, I'll get her eventually.
Yeah.
You know, or, or if she's not gonna do it, someone else will. Someone else will. Mm-hmm, or you'll never know this, but they'll blackball you. Mm. They will actually blackball you. You'll wonder like, okay, I moved on from this potential client, I'm onto this one, and then next thing you know, it's like, okay, what's going on? Like, what's happening? And little do you know, they've spoken to them behind the scenes and said whatever they wanted to say, you'll never know. Right. And then now this person isn't, um, following up with you, isn't returning the phone, call the email, and you're left wondering why. Yeah. It's because you got silently blackballed. And I feel like that also again happens in both scenarios. Yeah. Because if you do give in, or if you go out on a date, or if you sleep with them or whatever it is, they're gonna tell everybody anyway. And you're not gonna work with the next person, and the next person's not gonna take you seriously. And if you don't, they're still gonna tell everybody about you, , and not to work with her. Like, they'll say you're a tease or yeah. You know, and it's always
Yeah, us never them.
Exactly.
Ugh. Um, do you think that the, the young ladies that do, given I got, I don't know about the word promiscuous, but the ladies that do, um, use their bodies or, or flaunt, whatever, make it harder for us to then be taken seriously?
Yes and no. Yes and no. Um, definitely it's going to hinder because if they have a choice to doing business with someone that is willing to go all the way with them versus someone that's not absolutely, they're a man. They're gonna choose her. She's willing to do business with them and go all the way. It's like, who are you and who? . . Oh, I got somebody over here that's willing to do business with me and get in the bed with me. So what do I need you for? Why not? Oh, hi. How are you? Oh, next thing you know, it's like, uh, I'm still undelivered, . It is like, uh, they're not responding. It's like, because you didn't go through with their, you know, advances.
I think I, I remember someone, someone had reached out to me and they were, you know, really great. I think they were a singer as opposed to a rapper, but they were, they had this really great song and it was like a number one, et cetera, et cetera, but she wouldn't, um, sleep with the person that was promoting it, whether it was her manager or whoever it was. And they took the song from her, gave it to someone else and blackballed her
Wow. In the industry.
I'm not surprised.
And then the song went number one.
Wow.
Yeah.
I'm not surprised. Women want commitments. Okay. Right, right.
It's like, okay, if you're feeling a guy, I can see if it's just something natural. Okay. Yeah. So I meet this guy and, you know, he admire what I do for a living. I admire what he do for a living. And it's a match. It's something mutual. Okay. The energy, the synergy is all there, and it's something that you both want. Right? Okay. Hey, you could be the next power couple. Okay, I'm good with that, right? Mm-hmm. . But what I'm not good with is I'm giving you the vibe that I'm business only and you want something more. And when you can't get it, you're gonna either blackball me, not pay me, or just totally go, go stemmy. Yeah. That's not cool. You just wasted my time, my money because I could have made more money. Right. And, um, now you're trying to trash my name behind the scenes. Yeah. That's not cool.
I think it is like the, definitely, like the consequences of saying no. Like a lot of people don't think about that. And I, I do wanna clarify, you know, there are situations and scenarios where it isn't just with women. Like I do know men who experienced this same thing, whether they're straight men or gay men. And I, I have heard stories, you know, I wouldn't, you know, sleep with this producer. So now they're not calling me back for any roles on this network ever again. And it's a man and a woman producer. And that makes me very, very, very sad to hear because it's like, wow, of everything that we deal with every single day, you got to the power position and now you're just like them. That, Wow. Ugh.
My gosh. It makes my skin crawl are real . It makes my skin crawl. So I do wanna clarify. It's, it's not always just this scenario, but there are consequences to saying no. Whether that's at work, whether that's, um, you know, you're working under somebody and you say no to their advances, or whether you are the boss and you have employees, or, you know, if you're working on set with somebody and your colleagues, like, there's always a consequence to saying no to these, uh, situations. And I feel like, um, there's a way bigger picture here with, uh, just the dynamic of women saying no to men, um, that we're dealing with in America and worldwide. So I have a clip here that I wanted to show, and, um, it's all, let's hear it.
Yeah. The NYPD is looking for the men who allegedly attacked and robbed a woman trying to buy a bottle of wine in Harlem. CCBs News's, Lisa Rosner. Now with more force, this noon, Lisa.
Well, Chris, this happened just before 6:00 PM Monday. Witnesses chow me. The woman was alone in the store and being hit on by men inside. It was when she walked outside, when the trouble started, surveillance video shows two men walk inside chatting and laughing. Police say they started talking to a 31 year old female customer looking to buy a bottle of wine. Police say she rejected their advances inside the store on West 128th Street, near St. Nicholas Avenue. But when she walks out, you can see the two men follow and others also appear. Police say they kicked her multiple times, and one even bit her on the forehead.
The intrusion. The intrusion. I, I, she wasn't doing anything but trying to buy something for herself. I heard the commotion, I heard all the screaming. So, 'cause I looked right around the corner, I saw the little blood on her face.
Police say the victim suffered a bite mark with broken skin to her face, pain and bruising, and was taken to n y c health and hospitals Harlem in stable condition. Police say the men stole her iPhone 11 worth around 750 bucks and ran away. The incident is upsetting to people who frequent the area.
If you ignore a guy, then they'll be like, you're rude. But it's just like, you don't wanna talk to him. So you keep walking, but then it shouldn't turn out to an altercation. So
I hope they find them and, and they can have justice for the young lady, and I hope she's okay.
And anyone with information.
Wow. How does that, how does that make you feel? Are you tearing up right now?
I'm just thinking about my daughter. My daughter, she's 19 right now. And almost, um, a couple years ago she was at a gas station and she went inside to pay for gas. And the same thing happened to her. Um, it's a blessing that they didn't physically attack her, but they surrounded her and was like, oh, you too good to give us your number. So she said she had to think quick, and she was like, no, I was just paying for the gas. Here's my number. And she gave them the number. Right. And then she later blocked them. And so she had to think quick. Yeah. And so I'm just thinking like, this is crazy.
There's, there's, um, uh, so many situations like this. I tell, I tell all my girlfriends and, and my sister and everybody, you know, like in that situation, like, if you don't feel comfortable saying no, just give them, you know, a fake, fake number or give them a number that you are and then Exactly. Block them. Block them, because
They'll call it . And then, and then front of you, the next question is exactly, well, what if I give them a fake number and I call and it doesn't show up? Well, I don't have service. I'm sorry. Or my, I don't have my phone. Like, whatever. But it's just like so, so, so scary. Because even, um, this girl that lived next to me in my old apartment, there was a, a small bar, like one block in front of us, and she was on her way home and one of the guys followed her out. And I was like, Hey, can I have your number? Et cetera. She like politely declined. I have a boyfriend. And he followed her and threw her to the ground, bashed her into the concrete. And I saw her the next day. I thought she had gotten in a fight or maybe in a car accident or something, and she told me this story, and I'm just sitting here like that literally could have been me. That could have been my sister. It's just how, how did we get here? And I, I have, I pulled a bunch of news clips when I was Googling. It was just more and more and more and more and more. There's some in India, some in Canada, some in, you know, obviously all over the states. And it's just like this epidemic of just like hatred against women or just hatred of being rejected by women. I was gonna say that, um, I don't understand. Um, but there was a study that a young lady did. Her name is Lily Catherine Thacker from Eastern Kentucky University. And it's titled The Danger of No Rejection Violence. Toxic Masculinity and Violence Against Women. Um, and I wanted to read a little excerpt and, uh, Saul was gonna run some of the clips that I found. We don't have to talk about every single one, but, um, it says, male on female rejection, violence is commonplace. Elliot Rogers killing Spree was not an isolated incident. Even the most cursory Google search will summon dozens upon dozens of cases for this study alone. Over 50 cases found in the news were analyzed all within just the past six years. There are entire blog sites, some spanning several years with hundreds of entries, which are dedicated as spaces where women anonymously share their firsthand experience with rejection, violence. The violence employed in these cases is often disfiguring at best and lethal at worst.
Wow. Men can't take rejection. Some men, most men can't take rejection. We do .
I'm stressed out. Be wise,
I'm stressed out. Yeah. Like, you have to almost, you have to almost give in in order to protect yourself or make them think you're giving in. And let me just say this, right. Um, I believe this business first. Mm-hmm. Okay, let's take care of this business. Okay. Um, saying no doesn't mean it's no permanently mm-hmm. Okay. Maybe after you get to know someone, you know, maybe that No can possibly turn into a Yes. You know, at a later point. However, when you have, um, men that have, um, perverted intentions, you know, they're looking for the, right now, yes. They're not looking for, um, any type of long-term relationship. They just want what they want now. So, um, even if you say, you know what, um, let's, let's just do business and we can see where it leads, right. Depending on who you say that to, that could work. But then if you have someone that is just really persistent on what he wants now, that won't work. So you have to just distant yourself from that type of person, you know, because I don't even wanna do business with you now.
Yeah, yeah. Um, it's definitely a fine line. Um, you know, and we are lucky enough that we don't have a boss, right. Especially a male boss. Goodness. But in situations in the past, it's like even in those situations, you get, uh, sexually harassed by your boss, or you get, um, God forbid, sexually assaulted by your boss, the consequence of saying, no, you, you're fired, you're blackballed, you're talked about, you're embarrassed. What, what is the, the cost? You know? And I think that's something that we really have to kind of look into because not not all people, not many people are going to be in this situation where they have their own business, you know? Correct. The majority of people are working for someone or with someone. Right. And even in those coworker situations, um, you know, there was, there was an incident where, um, one of someone that's close to me was, uh, sexually assaulted at work.
Oh, wow. And she ended up quitting the job because she didn't want to go back to and deal with it, et cetera. She reported it and that person got fired. But, you know, it's just like, well now I, I lost my job anyway. Well now I, I have to find a new job. And it's just like the, the company, I believe they fired him, but what else? He's just gonna go to some other company and do the same thing to someone else, you know? But nine times outta 10, we're not gonna press charges. Right. Because that, that situation, um, you know, I shared on a previous episode something very traumatic that happened to me. I didn't ever press charges, right. Because I said no, and it didn't work. Wow. I said, no, and they still did it anyway. You know, and the men know that nine times outta 10, they're not gonna tell nobody. They're not gonna go to court, they're not gonna go to the police, et cetera. And that's why they're so comfortable with moving how they're moving. Right. Um, and it same thing in, in relationships, domestic violence, um, battered woman syndrome. Right. We could, we could be here all day. Exactly. On, on these topics. Um, that actually happened to me, by the way. I was, uh, um, I think I was about 18 years old. I was working at an auto parts store, and, um, my boss, he had to be about close to 20 years older than me, and he was married, and he would make advances towards me. And, um, when I was very clear, um, with my, no, I was fired. Wow. At that time, you know, I didn't know you're recourse young. I was only 18. I didn't know the recourse that I have now. And so, um, what I would say to women that's experiencing these type of issues that, um, are uncomfortable, that are being terminated from their positions at work or what have you, um, definitely report it. And if you have to, um, even take it as far as seeing somebody like you, um, an attorney go forth, because, you know, there comes a time when, um, people have to, um, pay for what they are doing. Yeah. And, you know, and it comes to time also when we have to speak up and stop being silent.
I think, I think you're right. I think you're right. Um, but I, I do feel a little, a little hypocritical in sharing that advice because I have not done that for myself. Right. You know what I mean? But it, it does take a very strong, strong individual to see it through to the end, you know? Yeah. You can report it, you can go to the police, maybe there's, there's a trial, et cetera, et cetera. But to go through that full process and to go up on the stand and, you know, one, face your abuser, um, and share your story and get torn apart by the, the prosecution, um, courage. Yeah. I think about, you know, we can name a few different cases.
Okay. And I'm sorry, I meant the defense.
Oh, right. It's okay. Uh, we can name a few different cases that we all are aware of where women came forth years later mm-hmm. And you wonder like, why did the take them so long to come forward? That, that part, they had to build up courage. Right. And when they saw other women coming forth, then it was just like, okay, she could come forth. I could come forth. Yeah. So we have to come together. We have to stop judging one another mm-hmm. us as women, like, oh, she's this or she's that. We have to be more supportive to one another, encouraging, empowering towards one another so we can build up that courage and, and that self-esteem that sometimes I've been torn down and you feel like, you know what, what's the use? They're just gonna blame me. Just like rape victims. Sometimes they don't go forth because they figure that they're gonna be blamed mm-hmm. in some type of way mm-hmm. . And so I would say, you know what, we have to have the courage to do what we need to do, to do what is right. Um, that we may be vindicated.
Yeah. Because, you know, honest, honestly, like if we don't, then they're going to do the same thing to someone else. Right.
And it's forever gonna haunt us. Mm-hmm. .
And it's, I think it's even harder to be able to come forth when it is somebody of power, of, of, you know, maybe celebrity status or, or they're higher up in the company or, or whatever it may be. But to be scared of that, you know, again, they're just gonna keep doing it to other people. Right. 'cause that's just, it's a, it's character. Right. It's their, their nature at that point. Unfortunately, the majority of the time, it didn't just happen to you.
Right.
Um, so, and be clear with your No, I mean, no, it's not a curse word.
Oh, I like that. That is, that is a perfect place to end on. No, is not a curse word. Um, thank you so, so, so much to come on the show and talk about something that is so prevalent in this industry. There should be no consequences to saying no because you are a human. You have rights to your thoughts, feelings, opinions, what you're comfortable with. Um, and I, I hope that, you know, maybe this message helped some, someone somewhere feel comfortable with being able to say no. And it's something that I'm still learning how to deal with. So thank you again, Ms. Anne for joining us.
Thank you for having me. It's been a pleasure.
Um, absolutely. This has been a, a very personal episode, but I, I do hope that anybody who's dealing with this situation, one, you're not alone. Two, you can say no, and you should say no if it does not feel good to you. Um, and three, you can also speak out. It, it is okay. And you're not alone. So thank you so much for, uh, tuning into the royalty room. Like, subscribe, comment, let us know what you wanna hear next. And um, we'll see you next time.
Bye.
